ZCTour

[Azian]

no muta bomb...thats fuckin dumb....that kinda destrys the maaain reason for temps at main also ...

[dAilydoSe]

Well Said newnew. Its same for rest of the dumb rules like no hunting ovies or vessles.

[moosums]

I like newnew's post as well, BUT, I think you should read neo's on the wana forums, It's pretty sick too.

Toronto sucks.

[«Canadian»]

nvm......

[dAilydoSe]

U know what i think.. ahhh nvm its not worth it. I'll post on private section

[Neo]

Guys, if you really want to know what a good muta bomb can do, I'll show you a sick rep of a game that lasted 10 minutes because of my muta bomb. If we allow muta bombing, that's what ZCTour will look like...

[DiRtY]

Lol, who said "no" to jhoining the league?

If u play zc, and use the forums, why would you not play in a league??

[«Canadian»]

neo said:

Guys, if you really want to know what a good muta bomb can do, I'll show you a sick rep of a game that lasted 10 minutes because of my muta bomb. If we allow muta bombing, that's what ZCTour will look like...

i'd hope it wouldnt, but i would think most people who get involved in zct wouldnt bomb anyways. Only to get certain things in the long end of the game. Maybe a pack of 12 muta accompanied with 12 ovies of hydra for a drop to his main or something. I dont think it should be outlawed. I think it should remain open to people, and with this, i still dont think many people would abuse it.

[Neo]

rezcanadian said:

i'd hope it wouldnt, but i would think most people who get involved in zct wouldnt bomb anyways. Only to get certain things in the long end of the game. Maybe a pack of 12 muta accompanied with 12 ovies of hydra for a drop to his main or something. I dont think it should be outlawed. I think it should remain open to people, and with this, i still dont think many people would abuse it.

Well since ZCTour is ranked by wins/losses, I fear that people will get desperate and do anything to win. ZCTour should be a fun thing to get things competitive, not morph our playing style to a must-win game.

[dAilydoSe]

neo said:

Guys, if you really want to know what a good muta bomb can do, I'll show you a sick rep of a game that lasted 10 minutes because of my muta bomb. If we allow muta bombing, that's what ZCTour will look like...

heheh. I used to have 100's of replays like that. I played alot of zc zerg. 2 straights years of usin only zerg ;P

[newnew]

(I would post this on my actual account, but i'm at school and these comps blow and for some reason they won't let me sign in with my account.. -_-)

You know. The whole "muta bombing issue" is like trying to kill a fucking cockroach. I just DON'T understand why it keeps popping up. What gives somebody the right to seriously try and take a thing as legal as muta bombing and turn it into "kicking someone in the balls."? How about THIS for an analogy. A HUGE ASS mother fucker with muscles walks up to a midget, hell-bent on smashing the little bastard's FACE in. Now. For the slower of you, the midget is the zerg, and the big dude is..let's say, protoss. Now. Does the zerg just stand there and let himself get fucked? I doubt it. The midget calls upon a bunch of other midgets (aka the "bomb"), in an attempt to topple the stupid bull queer by either "kicking him in the balls" or some other means, whatever brings him down. But, ya know, if the big dude is just "THAT GOOD", he MIGHT just have balls of steel, and no matter how many midgets you send at him, it won't do SHIT. They could possibly be matched up for a decent fight, but not if the midget is HANDICAPPED before it all starts.

My point is, zerg are midgets, ghahga. Many, MANY midgets, that are NOT effective unless you group them together. EVERYBODY knows that their strength lies in the ability to mass fast, and keep a steady flow of units the entire game. Which leads me to my next point..

1.A muta bomb is a HUGE risk. It's not just an easy win. If it fails, there goes ALL your units, and your larva supply afterwards, in a game with "good" people, will be fucked when your bomb is destroyed.

2.This makes it so..even though a muta bomb is a HUGE attack..and takes advantage of one of zerg's biggest strengths in massing, it also gives them a HUGE disadvantage, because it has been known to cut the player off COMPLETELY from having the ability to keep a steady flow of units.

3.Also, Neo, you've neglected to mention that you, along with ANYBODY ELSE IN THEIR RIGHT MIND (because we ALL know what i'm about to say is the truth), that not EVERY muta bomb is a huge success, like you're trying to make it out to be. You know full-blown well that you've had muta bombs, and so has everybody else, that have completely thrown a victory away for you and your team, because either your muta bomb seriously got fucked on the way to your enemy's base (which we ALL have seen happen), or, you did mass amounts of damage, you still leave your half of the map with a huge disadvantage, most of the time.

4. A recall is just the same type of thing, but it utilizes a strength of protoss, instead of the strength of zerg, which is, of course, being able to max units. With a recall, however, you get to choose any type of unit you wish to send. With zerg, however, you're stuck with MUTAS. EVERYBODY KNOWS, MUTAS ARE NOT VERY STRONG, as compared with DRAGOONS, AND REAVERS, AND ZEALOTS, OR TEMPLARS, OR ARCHONS, OR EVEN fuckING SCOUTS. AND WHAT'S MORE, THEY HAVE fuckING SHIELDS. AND if you recall, your units are cloaked WOO HOO. ARE MUTAS CLOAKED? I think not. Now, if you're a "good player" vs a recall and you're zerg, you'll have overlords. But if you're a good player and you're terran, you'll have not only an ability to see the cloaked units, but an actual top notch way to prevent the recall from actually happening (aka EMP).

5. In reality, comparing a muta bomb to a recall..there is NO bigger advantage between the 2, because with a recall, you swap a massing of units and the element of speed, with the ability to cloak and having the ability to choose much stronger units in your attack than mutalisks. And everybody knows, where a science vessel has the chance to nullify the arbiter's ability to recall, a couple of well placed templars can completely destroy an entire massing of mutalisks (notice I didn't even mention a way for zerg players to stop such things, but I gave rran and toss examples). Only thing that matters is whether or not YOOUU'RREE RREEAADDYY for one or the other. This is common sense, people. The thing I love about SC so much is there are advantages and disadvantages to every tactic you use. Every game is a gamble. You people just apparently haven't realized this yet about a game that you've all claimed to be so "great" at. STOP CRYING, thx.

-newnew @_@

[moosums]

alright, you got to be fucking kidding me, I can't reed that, lol, you ever consider a future in litterature?

Toronto sucks

[«Canadian»]

well i read it and i agree.

[dAilydoSe]

Yeah i read it also. U know i thoguht this zctour thing was a good idea right up untill i read them rules. I refuse to play in a league where they just add in stupid rules that were never there before.

[moosums]

Alrighty, newnew pecked at me like a little vulture until I agreed to read it and well, I hate muta bombs, but, I kind of agree, lol, I want to bring them back after reading that.

Toronto sucks

[Neo]

newnew said:

(I would post this on my actual account, but i'm at school and these comps blow and for some reason they won't let me sign in with my account.. -_-)

You know. The whole "muta bombing issue" is like trying to kill a fucking cockroach. I just DON'T understand why it keeps popping up. What gives somebody the right to seriously try and take a thing as legal as muta bombing and turn it into "kicking someone in the balls."? How about THIS for an analogy. A HUGE ASS mother fucker with muscles walks up to a midget, hell-bent on smashing the little bastard's FACE in. Now. For the slower of you, the midget is the zerg, and the big dude is..let's say, protoss. Now. Does the zerg just stand there and let himself get fucked? I doubt it. The midget calls upon a bunch of other midgets (aka the "bomb"), in an attempt to topple the stupid bull queer by either "kicking him in the balls" or some other means, whatever brings him down. But, ya know, if the big dude is just "THAT GOOD", he MIGHT just have balls of steel, and no matter how many midgets you send at him, it won't do SHIT. They could possibly be matched up for a decent fight, but not if the midget is HANDICAPPED before it all starts.

My point is, zerg are midgets, ghahga. Many, MANY midgets, that are NOT effective unless you group them together. EVERYBODY knows that their strength lies in the ability to mass fast, and keep a steady flow of units the entire game. Which leads me to my next point..

1.A muta bomb is a HUGE risk. It's not just an easy win. If it fails, there goes ALL your units, and your larva supply afterwards, in a game with "good" people, will be fucked when your bomb is destroyed.

2.This makes it so..even though a muta bomb is a HUGE attack..and takes advantage of one of zerg's biggest strengths in massing, it also gives them a HUGE disadvantage, because it has been known to cut the player off COMPLETELY from having the ability to keep a steady flow of units.

3.Also, Neo, you've neglected to mention that you, along with ANYBODY ELSE IN THEIR RIGHT MIND (because we ALL know what i'm about to say is the truth), that not EVERY muta bomb is a huge success, like you're trying to make it out to be. You know full-blown well that you've had muta bombs, and so has everybody else, that have completely thrown a victory away for you and your team, because either your muta bomb seriously got fucked on the way to your enemy's base (which we ALL have seen happen), or, you did mass amounts of damage, you still leave your half of the map with a huge disadvantage, most of the time.

4. A recall is just the same type of thing, but it utilizes a strength of protoss, instead of the strength of zerg, which is, of course, being able to max units. With a recall, however, you get to choose any type of unit you wish to send. With zerg, however, you're stuck with MUTAS. EVERYBODY KNOWS, MUTAS ARE NOT VERY STRONG, as compared with DRAGOONS, AND REAVERS, AND ZEALOTS, OR TEMPLARS, OR ARCHONS, OR EVEN fuckING SCOUTS. AND WHAT'S MORE, THEY HAVE fuckING SHIELDS. AND if you recall, your units are cloaked WOO HOO. ARE MUTAS CLOAKED? I think not. Now, if you're a "good player" vs a recall and you're zerg, you'll have overlords. But if you're a good player and you're terran, you'll have not only an ability to see the cloaked units, but an actual top notch way to prevent the recall from actually happening (aka EMP).

5. In reality, comparing a muta bomb to a recall..there is NO bigger advantage between the 2, because with a recall, you swap a massing of units and the element of speed, with the ability to cloak and having the ability to choose much stronger units in your attack than mutalisks. And everybody knows, where a science vessel has the chance to nullify the arbiter's ability to recall, a couple of well placed templars can completely destroy an entire massing of mutalisks (notice I didn't even mention a way for zerg players to stop such things, but I gave rran and toss examples). Only thing that matters is whether or not YOOUU'RREE RREEAADDYY for one or the other. This is common sense, people. The thing I love about SC so much is there are advantages and disadvantages to every tactic you use. Every game is a gamble. You people just apparently haven't realized this yet about a game that you've all claimed to be so "great" at. STOP CRYING, thx.

-newnew @_@

lmao newnew, and that is why I love you ;D

But, I still think your logic is off. First of all, your analogy is horrible. Making a rule against muta bombing is in no way crippling zerg or giving it a disadvantage. Zerg used to be my best race, I've played at least 10 ZCT games with zerg, and I can tell you that it is just as fun AND effective without bombing than it was when bombing was allowed. Then again, you don't play, so you wouldn't know. You calling zerg "the midget" is so far off too, you were never that good with zerg, so you don't know zerg's potential without bombing.

Point #1 - Yes, a muta bomb is a HUGE risk, I admit that. BUT, if you have half a brain, which coincidentally 99% of the people in ZCT have, a muta bomb is VERY easy to do major damage with. It is IMPOSSIBLE for a muta bomb to get fucked over if you spread the mutas out and don't suicide them, which is VERY easy to do.

Point #2 - I'm not sure what you mean by "it has been known to cut the player off COMPLETELY from having the ability to keep a steady flow of units"....

Point #3 - Yes, not every muta bomb is a huge success, but EVERY muta bomb is damaging. A muta bomb can EASILY take out 10 supply depots, 10 pylons, tech, etc.. which is well worth the loss of 4-5 sets of mutas. Muta bombs are crippling no matter what if they are in the right hands.

Point #4 - You are completely right that a recall is the pinnacle of a protoss's abilities, but a muta bomb is NOT the pinnacle of a zerg's abilities, so don't even try to compare the two. Zerg has way more devastating abilities, such as hydra drop and guards, they just take more skill to do. A recall is also 100x harder to get off than a bomb. You probably havn't played in recent games, but FYI, there is vision and EMP EVERYWHERE. Recalls are easily stopped with skill, bombs are different. The only way to stop a bomb quickly is to have temps and arbs everywhere, which is just impractical, you know this newnew.

Point #5 - WRONG WRONG WRONG. This is where you easily lost your argument. ANYONE with half a brain can tell you that a recall is 100x harder to get off now than a bomb. You say that "a couple of well placed templars can completely destroy an entire massing of mutalisks, " by "well placed," do you mean EVERYWHERE? Because that's what it will take to stop a well planned muta bomb...

Conclusion - Newnew, the problem with your logic is simple, you aren't seeing the potential of muta bombs in a must-win environment. ZCT scoring is based on wins only, so people will get very desperate to win. I can see the potential in bombs, and it does not look pretty. In my opinion, your zerg was never that good (no offense), and you never had the understanding of zerg that is needed to unlock it's true potential. I don't know if bombs are the only way you can win with zerg, but if you look at the patterns, all of the people who are truly good at zerg voted "no" for bombing and all the people who are not so good with zerg voted "yes." And what do you mean by: "You people just apparently haven't realized this yet about a game that you've all claimed to be so 'great' at."? No offense again, but I was and still am better than you (except for ran, haha), and I am saying that if people started perfecting muta bombs, they will get to be overwhelmingly devastating. To newnew and all of you who believe in bombing: OPEN YOUR EYES, the people with true skill think that bombing is cheap (or they havn't experienced a well planned bomb), and the people with shitty skill think that it's fair. No more explaining needed. "STOP CRYING, thx."

~Neo