New Penguin Plug Update - Good or Bad?

[Neo]

opwanagethy.proboards3.com/index.cgi?board=GSC&action=display&n=1&thread=1136659130

[Alpha]

Thanks for announcing this Neo. YOu my Dawg!! Thats psychadelic, to say the least, but I'm yet to test it. But i'm gonna RIGHT NOW. Thanks again. Cya on east bitacitchc.!!1

I'll leave my 2 cents on the subject later.

[Alpha]

*Visits www.poinsart.com/pp*

Wheres the update?? If this is a joke ima be MAAAD! First Person Replay would be the greatest thing for SC since replays period! It'd show ppl how l33t I am despite the lack of any coherent massing skills ><.

Speaking of l33t, last night I pwned sum shmuck with 7000-4000 stats 1v1. ;D

www.savefile.com/files.php?fid=3971895

[Alpha]

I think I've found what you're talking about.

sc.gosugamers.net/features.php?i=a&id=2156

I tried it out, and it seems pretty GOSU ;D


This doesn't show you actual mouse movements, but it does display mouse clicks and scrolls, which is just as handy. However, its still in its Beta stages, so it doesn't run like a dream.

And it does run with Penguin Plug.

[Neo]

www.bwprogrammers.com/viewtopic.php?t=6

That's what I'm talking about^^

It shows mouse movements and everything.

[Alpha]

yea man. Actually, I saw what you were talking about anyway because it comes with BWlauncher, but its not enabled by default. The "First Person" feature doesn't look at all alike, cuz all it does is highlight the buildings and units a player selects with a dotted line, as if they were on your team during a Team Melee match.



Its still a cool feature for Penguin Plug alone.

[Neo]

No man, turn the first person replay on and it will show the mouse movements too. Make sure you turn it on before you are in the game so it will save the replay with the mouse movements. If you did it right, watching the replay will look like you're watching your computer screen when you are playing.

[«Canadian»]

Rofl,
"Woot[BF]: il jus bum fuck ghost then"
"Canadian[BF]: --_-"

;D

[Alpha]

fuck u gys are too fast. I just finished editing my post cuz I caught on to what u were saying before.

*Edit*

Ima give it a try now, thanks.

[Neo]

<3 Steve ;D

[Alpha]

Alrighty! I managed to make it work, but only once for some reason ><. But when it did work I thought it was spectaculicious. My 2 cents are as follows:

If any of you have something against letting others observe your gameplay style than shame on you! After all, do WCG Tournament champions request to be locked away in a booth without observers when they compete in the finals? o_0 Negatory.

Hell, Broodwar TV in Korea discloses every single move a pro gamer makes, then analyses the fuck out of it on national television! But those players don't get their asses handed to them by random observant spectators.

The same goes for Jonathan 'Fatal1ty' Wendall. Hes still owning up a shitstorm, despite the fact that First Person Shooters, by their very nature, reveal absolutely everything about a players game.

What it all comes down to in a match (and I'm sure u guys have heard this before) is the ability to quickly adapt to new situations in matches.

[Alpha]

Apparently I have Two replays that work actually. But I only seem to have luck viewing them offline.
Try out this replay with Penguin Plug 0.4.4 in Single Player and lemme know if it works, please & thanx.

www.savefile.com/files/1834808

[Alpha]

2nd thoughts: Penguin Plug only auto-saves 'First Person' replays, which is cool I guess, but it'll make finding older replays a pain in the ass later on, unless you take the time to move & rename each and every one of them. At least this means I was wrong about only being able to view FP reps in single player.

Also, I've noticed that the cursor goes out of sync in long games, and so what happens is it'll drag the screen with it and take you away from the action. The only way to know what a player is doing is to watch for the dotted lines under buildings. This might have something to do with frequently speeding up or slowing down a replay, attempting to drag the cursor manually without using \Fpplay 0.

Lastly, U can't disable FPplay in single-player replays, unless you were to host an empty LAN game or something.

When added up these nuisances make the First Person featuer a little less than desirable. Thankfully though its only a Beta. I trust SuperPenguin & Illintar could fix these problems in their sleep when they're ready .

[«Canadian»]

cool.. You beta testing for them ?

[Neo]

alpha said:

Hell, Broodwar TV in Korea discloses every single move a pro gamer makes, then analyses the fuck out of it on national television! But those players don't get their asses handed to them by random observant spectators.

The same goes for Jonathan 'Fatal1ty' Wendall. Hes still owning up a shitstorm, despite the fact that First Person Shooters, by their very nature, reveal absolutely everything about a players game.

What it all comes down to in a match (and I'm sure u guys have heard this before) is the ability to quickly adapt to new situations in matches.

Well Steve, BW non-money is about as opposite as it can get from ZC. In non-money, at least 95% of a player's skill is in the micro, which can be observed, but almost never duplicated by a normal person. That's why those guys don't give a crap, because they're pulling 400+ APM on their micro and they know that no one can duplicate it.

Same thing goes for First Person Shooter games. Those guys have tweaked their hand-eye coordination and reaction time to supernatural levels. My brother almost went pro with Halo 2, and I would watch him for hours and I could never do any of the crazy stuff he did. I could learn his strategy and basic decision-making preferences, but there's no way in hell I could just pick up a controller and start getting Killtaculars and Killfrenzys by no-scoping people accross the map.

In ZC however, efficiency is the key. Build fast, mass fast, use APM wisely, etc... With first person replays, I could EASILY exactly duplicate someone's base, and many other important things that I could not get from normal replays.

You are right though, the ability to quickly adapt is the most important thing, and that can't be duplicated from watching a replay. In ZC, so much is dependent on how well you make the base, and it really sets apart the good from the best.

[dAilydoSe]

U know first person replays seem great and all but i really dont care about improving enough to examine a replay like that.

[Alpha]

W3rd... Thats a good point. Its kind of disappointing though, when you reduce ZC nrMM to building fast, massing fast, and using your moves wisely. Cuz you're right; During those first 9 minutes thats all it is. Fortunately you can't record some1 else's replay in first person. They have to distribute it.

By the way, strategy still plays a large role in First Person Shooters. In one particular interview Fatal1ty shared some secrets of his success during his stint with UT2003.

He talked about the importance of "keeping the map", which is basically being aware of where your opponent is at all times, hoarding the armor & health, setting a roaming pattern that keeps you within proximity of your most effective weapons and depriving your enemy of theirs, & other shit.

dailydose2 said:

U know first person replays seem great and all but i really dont care about improving enough to examine a replay like that.

If you're gonna watch replays anyway, why not view them in first person mode? They can still be sped up.

[dAilydoSe]

I barely ever watch replays. I barely ever save em. ONly if they are really good.

[BLaCK]

man that screen shot of alphas shit is fuckin hott i jus seen this post yo

[Alpha]

Thanks KJ!
That BWTV thing is another program entirely though. I'll start a thread about it later, unless someone beats me to it.
And if one of you do, you'd better do a good job of it or I'll flame it to hell!